quote:

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TRUTH BE KNOWN...THO MIGHT NOT HAVE BBEN THERE WITHOUT KSE CLEARING THEIR PATH. and they damn sure wouldnt have had as many make it or all the MP and HP i KNOW they saved along the way.

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If I attack, follow me...
If I retreat, kill me...
If I die, avenge me...

*Point: If you didnt want to (or couldnt) do the work involved....dont go first.

The fact is...you would never have made it to KR, so as a guild YOU dont deserver the item

stop making this topic to a flamewar, or simply dont post if you don't have anything to say except <whine mode> wah wah XXX is a ****er, wah wah, XXX is a moron </whine mode>

This is about a guy that got threated with disrespect, and about a guy that stole a drop.. -a dropstealer. Unfortunately, those 2 are the same guy..

I would like to put a few words on this topic, as I know DisscoStu, and I know him as a good and fair guy.

My point of view on this took some time to figure, but first of all THO reacted wrong, but at the same time, DisscoStu acted wrong.

Their part: They thought from the very first moment that you only where there to steal a drop. I do not understand that, cause it will go all around mir, and your "image" will be broken, so noone (except really stupid ones) -I know you aren't, will do it.

Your part: They told you to leave, and you did not. They asked you several times to leave, and you still stayed.

It really doesn't matter how you get there, I see people uses a long time on writing how many pots KSE saved THO, how people was laughing etc.

THO comes to ZT KR, they kill ZT. ZT dies, ZT drops mace.
DisscoStu was (I bet, cause I would of been the same) probably pretty pissed off by the way he got threated by THO, so he took the best thing in the drop (a JudgementMace).

Is this fair?
No it's not, not if you ask me.
ZT got killed by THO. Everyone (almost) knows that the ones that kills the mob owns the drop.
And yet you take it, but it was THO's drop.

It does not matter how you got treated (yes it do, but not when comparing) in this case, it is about you took something that does not belong to you..

I really hope the following things will happen.
1) THO leaders (StoneMage/Luna) apologizes on behalf of THO to DisscoStu.
2) DisscoStu accepts the apology and returns the mace.

Enough said..
Think about it Stu, be fair..

Whether THO were jerks about it or not really isnt the point. There are plenty of jerks in Mir. You stole a drop. Do you think any guild will hesitate to PK or attack your guild now if they see you at KR at the same time? No, because you already took the drop once.

Sort it out. If apologies need to be made, then do it. Accept the apology and give the mace back to its rightful owners.

My opinion,
DemonZ

As KvikZilver pointed out, this has nothing to do with whether or not THO is full of pricks or not. The point is that THO got the Mace, and it should be theirs.

I mean, come on...They asked him to leave the room. Is that asking for too much? Next time will KS allow people to 'observe' while they are killing ZT? Hell no! Because you dont know if the people observing will steal or not. They asked him to leave reasonably and he didnt. THO understandably attacked him. I cant see why he would get pissed off at that. They might not know you well enough to realise that you wont steal the drops! If someone is trying to kill ZT and Im in the room, and they tell me to leave, I will. Not because I want to, but because I realise that there are many thieves in the game and they are paranoid about me taking their ZT drop. I dont see why that is too much to ask.

DiscoStu should return the mace. I mean, come on...Not exactly a gale ring or something similar we are talking about now, is it? This is one of the items people go to ZT for...and after everything, he just steals it.

In this game, having a good reputation is very important. And DiscoStu, if you dont return it, Im sorry, but I think you will ruin your good reputation. And well, one thing is for sure, you definitely will not be 'observing' any more ZT fights simply because people might think that you just used THO *abusing* you as an excuse for you to steal the mace. If you dont return it, you will probably never hear the end of it, and not to mention it will be harder for many people to trust you in the game. You might have stolen it because they mistreated you, but many will think you would have stolen it anyway. Besides, its not everyday that you get to steal a mace from a ZT drop.

So I think you should return it. The drop is THO's. The only thing that can convince me to tell you to keep it is if you killed ZT and that didnt happen.

The right thing to do is to return it...but its your call. Think about it.

I have gone on ZT hunts with the guild before the patch and back then it was pretty simple, you had enough respect for the guild in the KR that you didn't go in while they were killing it. Now, wether or not THO let him in the room is irrelevant. He should have known the unwritten rule that he should have left.

Now, on defense of DisscoStu, if he was treated like that ... up to a point, it should have been "expected". If he was given the warnings (which I'm sure he was, having been to ZT hunts before) then he should have left.

To be fair, if DisscoStu returnst he JM, then THO should apologise. But in all fairness, both were a "little" in the wrong.
Anyhow, I hope this turns out for the best.

EDIT --> Just to say, I'm impressed how that DisscoStu didn't come in here Cursing and swearing away. He said his side of the story and then kinda left it there. Mercz speaks truth also, sure the situation is quite clear, according to the manual, you CAN stay there in ZT while another guild kills ZT. There is no debating that. But bottom line is, as said by mercz, many ppl are paranoid about theft in the game. And let's be realistic here, a Jmace drops and ... you have the clear chance to steal it. It's tempting, but situations like that seperates the good guys from the bad guys.

In game :
Humble1 - LVL29 Warrior
Xwavia - LVL22 Taoist
~The Holy Order~

The arse is an exit only hole. Anyone who wants to stick a knob there is not normal.

I dont agree with THO's behaviour but this is what people can expect from a guild that has members like Sanctis, Jj87 omikrom etc.
Like all guilds THO have good and bad.
Unfortunatly these guys stick out like Pinochios nose.

Its about time there was more co-operation in this game between the guilds.
Get the names of all leaders of the major guilds that have done or are planning to do a ZT hunt find out when they are having a ZT hunt, and ffs work with each other rather than against em, that way we wont have guilds running into each other in these corridors like whats happened in this thread, and if they fail then let the next hunt LEADERS know so they can set of at an earlier time.

This is YOUR game YOU make the rules...Lets see one put in place to avoid this type of thing again.

font=Verdana][/font=Verdana]

quote:

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Same happened to HG and TD. We we going thru 7f floors and tho decided just to follow and not do anything. On another day there were about 30 HG in the king room, we killed ZT and some ppl left as the 2hr bt internet cutoff. There ws still around 18 of us and we waited over 2 hours. THO walked into the king room set and and as they did ZT spawned, they woke ZT even when they knew ours were the next. Next minute Stonemage shouts kill all drop thieves lol. Moral of this story is not to trust THO at all.

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Moral of that post is that it has nothing to do with this case. This topic is about what is wrong and not wrong, not about past, not about future. Only one to decide anything about trust is the 2 parts involved.

/\ KvikZilVeR /\
Another sleepless night and we're gonna walk this land together..

stu is a good guy, a bit hot-headed when pushed but fully justified in my views in his acts, maybe in future they will have a bit more respect for people in the ZT.

keep it dawg, and when u hit 30 sell me that D sword cheap so i can give one back to grogan lolz

Peace.

I just wanted to point out, I'm glad you see me as a respectable person (which in game I definitely try and beleive I am) and all that, but I wanted to correct, I'm not a Leader in the guild.

Sometimes I might appear to be the "voice of reason" or perhaps another way of saying it "gullible".. He he.. but basically, I try to solve things by talking not taking rude rash actions.

Anyway, just thought I'd throw this in here.
Thanks again.

In game :
Humble1 - LVL29 Warrior
Xwavia - LVL22 Taoist
~The Holy Order~

quote:

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THO walked into the king room set and and as they did ZT spawned, they woke ZT even when they knew ours were the next. Next minute Stonemage shouts kill all drop thieves lol. Moral of this story is not to trust THO at all.

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However, its just a game and you got a super rare weapon, so why not just keep it?

It really depends on how much you value peoples respect. By people I dont just mean THO or just your Guild. People as in the average player will either go on liking you or not trusting you after reading this.

If you give it back theres no 100% chance you still won't go on there Ko list and theres no 100% they'll ever forgive you for doing it. So to give it back you'd have to trust THO's leader and IF some of there members acted wrongly (depends on there rules..), they should be sorted out.

----------------------
"What is your reason to fight?"

I am amazed at how item-greedy the people in mir can be
he says I don't understand because I don't play the game or
know how hard it is to actual get these items
but although it may be hard to get
what that clan did to him wasn't right
there should be some sort of punishment dealt there
I don't agree with drop stealing either
but in this case I find that he's justified to a point

there should be some sort of punishment dealt to tho
for the actions of the few bad apples in the group
.. though keeping the mace might be a bit excessive
though if the whole group was more like humble1
then I know that nothing like that would happen

any game if played by mature people should be able to
remain civilized at all times

1 - I don't wanna get into the PK point of view.. Discco is a good m8 of mine and i wouldn't want him PK'ed regardless.

2 - If u lured ZT on him.. then surely by usual standards.. ZT was DISCCOSTU's mob.. your fault for luring.

However a JM is one of the most prized possesions in the game and i hope this can be resolved as soon as poss, without having to resort to a pk fest.

Viks

quote:

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Omnikron SHUT THE **** UP U MOTHER****ER! OK?

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Mulesy Soulseekers Leader

/discostu "judge not lest ye be judged"

Rev1701
Level 28 Warrior
RogueGuildLeader
The Sith

"No problem can be solved from the same consciousness that created it."

I'm only actually bothering to reply to this because two members of Guild Enneagon were part of the KSE expedition, and I have heard aural accounts of the situation from both of them.

Firts point to make is that from what I understand, there were only 10 members of THO in their hunt, in which case, unaided, they would never have made it through the first room, let alone to the Throne room.

Second point is that given the ideals that the land of Mir aspires to, laughing at fellow players as they die, specifically because they have allowed you to reach an area you would otherwise have never got to, is completely defenseless. At that point, in my opinion, 'all bets are off'.

To further learn that this is not a one-time occurence, but a habit of the guild in question, lends credence to the belief that, in only sending tem people on a guild hunt in the first place, this was perhaps their intention all along. It would seem that the reputation that THO have amongst most other high level players holds water.

Now...from a guild point of view, were my guild to be in ZT Throne room and notice a non-guildmember lurking about, I would not be happy. I would, as THO did, ask him to leave. I would NOT, however, attempt to have my guildmembers PK him, once he had made it clear he was only there to observe. In doing so, THO, and in luring ZT onto him, I'm afraid you got what you asked for. If this was a simple case of drop stealing...had you left him alone and he had done the same ting regardless, then perhaps you would have a point. But in attacking him, you made him and enemy, and as the saying goes, 'all's fair in love and war'. THIS IS THE POINT THAT MODERATORS SEEM TO BE MISSING. I doubt very much you were attempting a few 'warning hits'. I would think you were definitely trying to kill him, or force him to rt...it would seem that, having taken that course of action, you should have done a better job.

Whilst I, and my guild, in no way condone drop stealing, I would say in summary that you brought it on yourselves. Perhaps, unless your past history prevents it, you could persuade Legz to insist on its return in return for recompensing all KSE and Enneagon members for the cost of getting you there. But I would think, having read Legz' response, its unlikely.

Perrinax 180Degrees 1of2
Co-Leader Guild Enneagon

I want to make corrections to disscostu version of what occured in ZT kr.

Every1 knows how tough the way ZT kr is, that's why we gathered our elite players or atleast those who were on at the moment.
A few days before THO had manage to get to kr and kil ZT a couple of times so we were happy to once again be going.

Everything starts when we C guild ahead of us in first room after ZUma Lobby 7f. When wwe reached them we was told to wait behind cause their guild was ahead of us. Sure if they wanna lead then let them do it we though. After a couple of minutes some of them dies in a bad respawn. Now the situation changes. Some1 shouts: "THO is getting a free ride".
So I shout back saying " well let THO go ahead and ofcourse we will kill ZT first when we get to KR.
KS&Co stops before entering second floor, me and our 5 other warriors runs ahead at the front line, but the the rest of my members get stuck in those narrow pasSages cause of the amount of peeps blocking.
Anyway we all get mixed up and together we do second floor.
Me and Stonemage decides to regroup and regen in 1 of second floors room. KS&Co moves in to third and last floor, how they began dying I really don't know but I can guess.
After regening and cleaning up second floor we R set and moves into third floor.
We start cleaning up third cause respawn had caught us.
We keep cleaning till a few corners when we once again run into decimated KS&Co, they have now lost alot of peeps and have only 1 wiz.
I talked to Stonemage about how we were going to proceed.
As u all know killing ZT with 1 wiz aint the easiest thing to do.
On the other hand we had 7-8 wizs but only 4 warriors so we couldn't risk our wizs in a bad respawn cause that room just outside kr is a BiTchl, 4 warriors isn't enough to protect our wizs from a bad respawn.
Anyway we decide to stay back and C what KS&Co decides to do, fight ZT or leave.
A bad respawn got them again and they started dying/DE.
Every1 knows JJ87, he got his good times and he got bad times.
He's very young so I have never bothered so much over what he says and do.
And I'm sure u heard us to tell JJ87 to shut up several times.

POINT IS: I guess u guys had a bad hunt.

BUT DO NOT BLAME IT ON US.

After we cleaned up that freakin room just out side kr door.

Stonemage goes in to KR and what does he find at door: ZT
This fact u don't talk about. U WOKE HIM UP.
I got really PISSED OFF then cause that was a really imature sabotage.

At this point Disscostu had Rt him around and "hang with us".
Me and Stonemage manage to lure ZT away from door and we set up in a corner.

I thought Disscostu was w8ing outside kr cause that's how it always have worked between guilds. But NO he was standing right next to our
ZT drop FFS.

WHAT DO U EXPECT?!?!?!? FLOWERS?!?!?

I really hate kr (both WT/ZT) cause I know how much bull**** there always bring up.

I told Disscostu to leave kr, HE REFUSED.
I started to shoulder dash him to exit but he kept runing off.

He says that we tryed to pk him, WICH IS TOTAL BULL****
Do u really think that we couldn't have killed u if we wanted to?!?!
It wasn't like u had the odds in favour 12 vs 1.
We really respect our leader Stonemage, and when he says no PKing we obey as good members that we R.

Anyway ZT suddenly respawns and we don't have time to BS.
We line up once again and I go get ZT.

Now comes next correction. Disscostu claims I lured ZT on him ?!?!?!?!
He was when we lined up in upper right corner.
We linep up on upper left corner, AND EVERY1 KNOWS THAT U GOTTA GO
INFRONT OF ZT TO WAKE HIM UP. wich I did and in my run back DISSCOSTU WAS STANDING JUST BELOW(MIDDLE) OF OUR LINE UP.

What happens, the so called(himself told us he was gonna watch) did more than just watch. DISSCOSTU RUNS INTO OUR ZT DROP AND STEALS OUR J MACE.

THAT IS STEALING DISSCOSTU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

U CAN'T TAKE AWAY THE FACT THAT U STOLE OUR DROP.
AND WHAT I KNOW OF U R STILL A THIEF.

U SAY THAT U WANTED TO TEACH ME A LESSON.
HOW OLD R U?????????
DO U REALLY THINK THAT STEALING IS OK??????
AND DO U THINK THAT AFTER THIS THINGS R GOING TO BE BETTER IN KR?
U DID NOT EVEN SPEAK TO ME, U NEVER TRYED TO REASON WITH ME.
IT WAS PURE STEALING.

OMG WHAT HAVE U DONE!!!!!!!!

MIR HASN'T GOT POLICE FORCE, WE THE PAYING PLAYERS FORM MIR.

I TELL U 1 THING. IF U U DON'T RETURN J MACE ALOT OF THINGS IS GOING TO CHANGE MIR.

I WILL DEFINITLY.

I'M NOT TALKING OF PAY BACK (wich is a story apart)
I'M TALKING ABOUT PLAYERS ATITUDE TOWARDS DROPS AND OTHER PLAYERS.

WHY FIGHT WHEN U CAN STEAL?!?!?!?!?

Anyways I really hope u reason Disscostu and do the right thing, not for the MACE itself for Mir, cause I don't like the Mir of tomorrow and I'm sure u won't not either.

quote:

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2 - If u lured ZT on him.. then surely by usual standards.. ZT was DISCCOSTU's mob.. your fault for luring.

Viks

.....Viktor.....
~Veni~Vedi~Veci~

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If we look at the fundamentals, there are 2 PRINCIPLES concerned (I use principles because that is how we govern in terms of law within MIR albeit that there are no written laws of constitution.)

Do I Study LAW?

Anyway i. DiscoStu was Attacked
ii. DiscoStu stole a drop

(and to be honest Stu forget all the slant of reputation within mir [because those that know you will continue to be your friends and I doubt very much that you'll lose any respect that is worthy of keeping] but i digress.)

Now had there been relevant cause for THO to attack Stu because he was acting untoward or illiciting a rise out of THO then THO have a case. However from all the evidence he was merely there to make observations (which he is freely entitled to), Therefore I conclude that THO made the initial ACT by trying to remove him (and lets be honest I'm sure a few of them thought hey he's wearing some good stuff lets see what we can get)

THO attack, therefore Stu is obliged on principle and law to defend himself and in these events he picked up a judgment mace and left the zone of conflict.

Now his actions on principle are completely justified and as a result he has 2 options because he is due compensation.

i. Keep the J.Mace (which I would do)
ii. Sell the J.Mace back to THO for a sum no less than 2 million gold

SIMPLE CASE CLOSED

next plz......?

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"To sleep, perchance to dream"

'Enneagon' 1 of 9

DISSCOSTU WAS AT FIRST STANDING IN THE UPPER RIGHT CORNER WHERE WE LEFT HIM WHEN ZT RESPAWNED.

WE MOVED TO THE UPPERLEFT CORNER, I RUN TO WAKE UP ZT AND WHERE IS DISSCO, HE HAD MOVED AND WAS NOW ON LEFT MIDDLE SIDE OF ROOM, BETWEEN ZT AND MY LINE UP POSITION.
WTF AM I SUPPOSE TO DO?

DE?

1)KSE didn't get turn at Sabuk (and I really wanted to pay for an archer).

2) KSE led the way to KR. Because they lacked warriors - they encouraged us verbally, rather than risk joining the fighting.

3) First Guild there has the rights to enter.

4) Discostu now represents KSE and has the right to enter.

5) HOG also enter (now joint raid?)

6) Several attempts are made to murder Discostu

7) ZT is killed twice

8) Discostu is senior KSE member and has most rights to be there, he selects ONE item from the drops.

Wheres the problem?

Oh yes - HOG are going to PK us.

LOL We are quite big boys and girls now - I for one will enjoy responding to a little unprovoked agression.

Leash

Viks

quote:

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From reading this, all THO seem to agree that 1 - u tried to pk him and 2 - u lured ZT on him

2 - If u lured ZT on him.. then surely by usual standards.. ZT was DISCCOSTU's mob.. your fault for luring.

~Veni~Vedi~Veci~

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If I attack, follow me...
If I retreat, kill me...
If I die, avenge me...

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