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 the issue of character balance
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Ayuda
Junior Member


United Kingdom
356 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  01:22:20  Show Profile  Send Ayuda an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
afer reading through what seems like countless pages of posts ive come to one conclusion, everybody wants their class to be stronger, the warriors complain about various things, which i can understand and agree with as i am a warrior, the mage complains about having to group to level up and so on, the taoist doesnt complain that much, which is worrying. so here is a list of what i think should be done, as its nearly 1am here i will miss loads of what i thought of earlier so add anything you want but dont go stupid for your own class

1)warriors should have a statistic of they own, like mages have MC taoists has SC and yeh warriors have DC but everyone can use that. maybe a RG skill (Regen) for regenerating Hp. and there should be a book for it about level 14/15.

2)the mage should have a higher HP by about 15 and gets to about what it is now by level 20, this is so they can xp alone at lower levels, but, i think a few of the spells should be taken away as there is a huge range compared to other classes (actually looking back on this is disagre with myself, all should happen is mages should accept that some spells are rare, thats the point and to stop complaining you cant find them, think about wizards in the past they didnt all have the same spells) .

taoists Hp should be taken down a little to balance things out but the healing should be a bit more effective.

there should be an equal balance of classes weapons found (does anyone even know what a hoocked sword looks like?)

ahhh f**k it ill carry this on tomorrow im too tired, if u think im being unfair so far say but remember im not finished, i will edit this message so dont expect a new one by me

**~~Ayuda~~**

Thalazar
Junior Member


United Kingdom
222 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  12:29:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

taoists Hp should be taken down a little to balance things out but the healing should be a bit more effective.

NO! When one class is stronger than the others, you DON'T MAKE THE TAOIST WEAKER! This screws up all the hard work Tao players have put into their character and takes away the advantage they have earned. MAKE THE WARRIOR STRONGER! And possibly make the mage have more HP.

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Quillian
Average Member


United Kingdom
670 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  14:15:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, if Taoists did have hp lowered, I'd want my mp raised to balance that.
Ok..warriors do need tweaking to bring them up to par, perhaps a hp regen skill is the answer for this.
Taoists dont complain because I think the Tao class is balanced, it has its strengths and weaknesses.
Mages...stop complaining.I accept that mages moan they have no hp, but who else can blast a zombie with 3 or 4 spells.
Seems mages are more suited for group work just now.
I'm sure the staff are monitoring the situation and will make changes to the classes as they see fit.
I dont mind if they nerf my Tao, I'll just adjust my tactics to compensate and carry on regardless.

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jimbro1000
New Member


United Kingdom
92 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  14:30:37  Show Profile  Visit jimbro1000's Homepage  Send jimbro1000 an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
Thalazar (and a whole bunch of others), you should just accept that this is a Beta and stop whining about the possibility that some things may have to be decreased!

I've said it before, I'll say it again. You CANNOT JUST INCREASE STATS TO ACHIEVE BALANCE. It doesn't work - things just get worse and worse with more and more increases for each class in turn.

One things that I think would make for more interesting growth is to increase the number of "levels" available for the different skills. Only having 3 levels and having to put so much effort into what is usually very little gain is a bit of hard punishment.

The idea of having more diverse skills and spells, keeping some common and some rare with just a few extremely rare makes more sense.

We complain about everyone looking the same, but the stats for any given pair of players (of a specific class) are essentially identical and that applies to their skills as well. The GMs have hinted somewhat at changes that will allow players to decide HOW their growth at each level increment is selected, rather than automatically as it is now (I actually quite like the auto-growth style, but I would also like to be able to override it on occasion to create a little specialisation).

Diversity is what I'm looking for - not clones of everyone else around me.

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Annalese
Starting Member


United Kingdom
15 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  16:04:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tested out the 3 classes to levels 15 and over to see exactly what differences there were between them - strengths and weaknesses.

Frankly you'll find taoists complain to other taoists who understand how irritating it is to have to run around and find the ingredients for poisons, and then having to keep poisoning every monster you see just so the skill goes up by 1-3 points out of 2000 or however many etc.

My warrior compared to my sorc is stronger defense wise obviously - thats what you'd expect. My sorc has no targetting system for the fireball and elec shock etc, so I find her easier to use when fighting even a group of monsters whom I can just hide behind some obstacle when attacking. This balances out - the warrior misses occasionally and the sorc has to move a distance away to attack.

With the taoist they are obviously the middle class - which is exactly why there is less complaining from them. They are not to either extreme of having tons of hps or sps, but are in the middle, so basically if someone wants to be just average atm the class to chose would be the tao.

Now if the sorc was given the same amount of hps as the tao there would be reason to complain. Based on the classes there is a clear reason why sorcs have less hps and warriors have absolutely no mps. To adjust them to be 'simular' to others would defeat the point that these are different classes, and therefore *should* have varying hps and mps. One extreme for two, and one in the middle. If someone doesn't like that a particular part is lower than the other, be a tao.

Basically with the sorc its down to tactics - if you're crap at tactics, chose a different class. I didn't need to group once with the sorc to get my levels up - I found it the easiest to level without hardly ever getting hit.

With the warrior I agree it was a lot tougher. There's the targetting system all the way through the levels (even with raised acc), a lack of skills and no specific stat. However I found she was the strongest class and could outlast numberous fights without having to use potions (down to high AC). Unlike the other classes though, she doesn't have to buy both potions. Lucky me.

I found the taoists were pretty average, which is why nothing should be altered. They're SUPPOSED to be like that, the jack of all trades. Frankly they don't excel in anything, can't attack from afar efficiently, can't handle long battles without having to use hp potions (or healing themselves - its the eqivalent), but we live with it. We don't complain because we KNOW we are just average, we chose the class that we KNOW will have no extreme. As soon as there are other classes...then there'll be more cause for complaint on all sides, as you'll have more to compare them to.

Sure this is BETA. So things are going to be altered. but the way I've seen it, after testing all three, they did the class creation right in terms of stats, they all play differently and require different tactics. The warrior needs more skills he can gain (it was damn boring levelling when there were so few rewards to be gained) and an additional stat that maybe makes his attacking more powerful - or perhaps something to quicken regeneration of hps if people are actually saying MC and SC makes sorcs and taos regenerate their sps quicker. I think something like a warcraft class skill (WC)that specifically brings up the minimum damage he can inflict or something.Go to Top of Page
dcscanner
New Member


USA
81 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  19:49:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
im a lvl 12 warrior and i agree that warriors need more of a balance all i do is run around buy hp potions go fight and run back for more hp while mages can fight from a distance and toas can heal themselfs warriors are taking the brute of the punishment out there and having to spend a lot of time hunting down potions rather than gaining xp how about giving warriors and mages the ability to heal at higher levels

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Martellino
New Member


USA
72 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  20:37:16  Show Profile  Send Martellino an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
WELL DUH!
don't play warrior.
every game book, warrior is slated as the easiest character to play. their purpose is mainly take brute force (meat shield).
if you don't want to be easy. go play other char, and you'll understand.
mana dependent characters, spent alot of time and money to polish their magic skill.
while warriors auto polish their skill with fighting.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH AND HOW LONG IT TAKE TO LEVEL Summon Skeleton from LV 0 to LV1?
(1 summon skel 2-4 exp, it take 2000 exp to reach lv 1, go figure out how many summon skel we have to make. not considering the mana cost)

geez, go whack something else stfu

-= Zillu | Taoist of 21st Degree =-Go to Top of Page

Thalax
New Member


USA
59 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  21:44:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

every game book, warrior is slated as the easiest character to play. their purpose is mainly take brute force (meat shield).

Sorry what game books do you read that tell you that a warrior is supposed to be the easiest character to play? The only reason that the warrior lacks depth in this game is because the characters are unbalanced. And I will go as far as to say they are unbalanced in many aspects.

  • The warrior has FOUR skills - two of which are accessible within level 24. The Mage and Taoist have 10 to 11 skills - 8 of which they can play with before level 24.
  • Everyone can wear ALL armor. Why is this? Warriors should be the armor gods while mages should be made to wear basic clothing and Taoists should be in the middle.
  • When I think of more I will post them =)

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Goldie
Junior Member


Belgium
103 Posts
Posted - 06/26/2001 :  22:00:28  Show Profile  Visit Goldie's Homepage  Send Goldie an ICQ Message  Reply with Quote
there is worked on warrior
dont loose ur hope
warrior will be able to use a bow and the mediumarmor is a proof that they work on it

*IM not responsable for this message*

*When u thought u'd seen everything,u havent seen me*Go to Top of Page

Dundee
Junior Member


United Kingdom
255 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2001 :  01:27:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I think there are 2 diferences in the characters
1. items, there is more wiz and tao items found than warrior
2 skills the warrior has fewer skills than any other class, I do think they should have more skills maybe specialisation in a type of weapon, regen etc.

anyhow just a thought

Sh*t happens, deal with it!Go to Top of Page

kildonalis
Starting Member



26 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2001 :  06:18:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a lvl 16 warrior and after reading alot fo post by wizards saying how tough it is for them I decided to make a wizard to see if it is truly tougher than a warrior. I started my wizard about 5 hours ago I am already lvl 12 now it me about 3 days with my warrior to hit that lvl. I can kill things that my warrior can kill but alot faster and only use 1 pot to where my warrior would use 2-3. My mage has the same ac at lvl 12 that my warrior has at lvl 16. However with mage I went with AC gear to where with warrior I have to wear DC gear to be able to deal good damage. Wizards are by far tougher than a warrior I kill alot fast hardly ever get hit. I will probably never play my warrior again as my mage will surpass him in about 4-5 hours. Warriors need a AC upgrade bad this is the first game I ever played where a Mage can have the same if not better AC than a warrior, they shouldnt even be close. Other than AC I cant think of anything a warrior needs, Mages should deal the damage they deal.

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